Tag: Forest Drive

June 1, 2017 Ross MacBeath 4 comments
By Ross MacBeath

Camping provision without parking spaces, pitches you can’t find never mind camp on, and camping permit zones comprising bogs, scrub, briar, rough heath and felled forest all add to the growing list of failures in the Loch Lomond and Trossachs National Park Authority’s claim to have provided  new camping places, not just in Forest Drive but Park wide (as illustrated in Nick Kempe’s post yesterday on Firkin Point)

 

Then consider if Forest Drive is suitable at all as a location for 72  of the 300 camping pitches the Park promised to provide when the gates are locked at 4 pm and don’t open again until  9 am the following morning.   In effect none of these pitches are available to anyone who has not taken an extra half or full days leave on the first day of their holiday or weekend.

 

This is repeated at Loch Chon and other gated sites where the very few toilets available in the Park are locked when Rangers go home in the evening if there have  been no bookings.  This can be as early as 4pm,  forcing all visitors to go in the bushes, a criminal offense if they are not in possession of a trowel.

** Currently  26 Forest Drive  pitches are missing from the booking system!

 

Forest Drive Zone L, replacing a desirable loch shore as a place to camp

 

In past years, before access rights,  the Forestry Commission provided an excellent permit zone for a number of tents just opposite what is now Permit Zone L

The grassy loch shore was perfect for camping and suitable for families and multiple groups.  A small portion of it is shown here.

 

That is all gone as far as camping is concerned – camping along the shore is now banned, though there is a bay for a motorhome on the shore side of the road, and has been replaced by a zone located within the forest.

 

The First view of Zone L is not really encouraging with rough ground and slopes

The LLTNPA claimed 9 places were available to camp here from 1st March.

Damage to sign perhaps by some disgruntelled visitor who was mis sold this site

 

Large areas of debris cover the forest floor, steep slopes and rough ground with thick vegetation, all make this area unsuitable for camping. As hard to believe as it might be, this is a accurate description of the entire zone ‘L’

It would appear already that some disgruntled visitor has taken offence at being duped by the LLTNPA into paying for this site and took it out on the sign.

 Click here to review the full image set

Misleading maps, poor parking provision and no where to go

 

The map shows a large camping area which one might have thought offers plenty of places to camp but this bears no resemblance to the truth. The 9 pitches claimed simply do not exist, and the motor home space at the parking opposite takes up to 8 meters of the lay by, allowing space for a further 2 cars, 3 at a push if one noses in off road.

The shore frontage here is popular with Forest Drive day visitors and fishermen so it and the layby fills up quickly.  Quite where the additional 9 cars that campers require are going to park is a mystery..

 

Apart from lack of parking at this site, if nine camping groups ever did book permits, forced to come here by the National Park, they would be driven onto the lochshores as the camping zone itself  provides no incentive to remain in forest after perhaps an initial exploration or search for somewhere to go to the toilet.

 

New disruption to the forest is likely to worsen if operations continue

 

Vehicular entry into forest from track above zone The start of what promises to be a disruptive forestry operation Selective felling means vehicular access to all areas required

Click images to zoom and enter gallery

 

The tracks are an unsightly muddy mess that can be crossed with care you would not really want to get this mess on your feet before entering your tent.

 

While the forestry felling operations are a noisy and destructive intrusion when in progress, they are not really any cause for concern at Zone ‘L’, other than the aftermath of churned up ground, felled wood and trimmings cumulatively denying access to the zone over time as well as other multiple issues with the site:

 

Forest floors in commercial forests are not suitable locations for camping

 

This zone, being part of an active forest, is affected by the usual rotating pattern of felling,  self seeding and natural regeneration which takes place over many years.  This has resulted in a rough inaccessible forest floor across the entire area, often hazardous and strewn with debris from the tree felling and trimming operations.

 

Tree trimmings deny access and interfere with tent pitching The natural reclimation of the previous debris results in and uneven floor Trimming of self seeded growith results in unusable and quite hazerdous areas

 

Hill side locations often hold little camping pitch gems, but not this one

 

Being a hill side location above the loch means the area is predominantly sloping northwards meaning any sun entering has to filter through the canopy  The slopes themselves are unsuitably steep with the areas below them generally wetter with standing water and mosses due to run off from the slopes.

 

Entire slope along the length of forest drive is too steep for camping The zone is undulating and slopes in the zone mossy wet areas below The west border od the zone is the river with steep inaccessable banks

Click on images to zoom

 

Again the question of why these areas are included in a camping zone can only be explained by the Park’s  need to deceive the public and other stakeholders into believing that they have delivered sizable camping provision when in fact the total size of the permit zones in general is much much larger than the miniscule areas in the zones which are suitable for pitching tents (and in this particular zone, which the Park claims provides for 9 tents, has nowhere suitable).

 

Flatter areas are unsuitable with standing water or dense vegetation

 

The slope levels out a bit towards the forestry track, the southerly border of the zone. with some more areas just to the top of the slope from forest drive.

 

Sections of the level floor have self seeded and are inaccessable Typical flatter area where mosses and wet areas abound Flatter areas by the track are exposed to light where bracken and thick grasses can florish

 

The now familiar red paint ring around trees marking them to be retained for self seeding while others are harvested.  This is a very successful method of forest growth and much of the forest floor has self seeded with the result they are unsuitable for tents.  This, in combination with wet mosses and other thick vegetation where sunlight penetrates the forest canopy, make the greater zone unsuitable for access, never mind camping.

 

Mosse, standing water and ouht ground unsuitable for camping Rough round and debris prevent pitching tents It's just impossible to camp in this zone, in seasom it will be a midge ridden hell hole

 

Standing water and shade makes this an ideal breading environment for midges, the dense vegetation, high humidity and detritus from trees provides insulation for the overwintering of midge larvae and nymphs ensuring a thriving population the following summer.

 

Popular loch shore locations are “popular” because of the short grasses and sunny aspects which in themselves give some some relief from the midge during warm sunny or windy days, especially where tree cover is minimal. But the main reason they are so popular is because they are pleasant places to spend a weekend,  particularly if you want to do no more than throw a Frisbee, run around the tent with the kids or cool off in the loch.

 

I love forests, even commercial forests such as this.  To me they are as interesting as they are beautiful.  What’s more there are many locations throughout the country where forest camping can be enjoyed on a dry flat forest floor with a carpet of leaf or pine needles, with great views or in sunny clearings.  This is just not one of them.

 

The LLTNPA’s war against visitors continues

 

It seems the LLTNPA have continued to wage war against visitors by providing the most atrocious areas for pitching tents available in the National Park, claiming they match the camping zone selection criteria.  This zone matches a few:

 

  1. It’s Forestry Commission Land so it’s available,
  2. It has no adverse impact on the environment as it’s a commercial forest
  3. It has fishing close by as a recreational activity

 

It matches no other criteria.  In fact the National Park don’t even list “suitability for camping” as a prerequisite for choosing a site and that fact is aptly demonstrated by Zone L.

 

There are no suitable areas in this entire zone that would constitute a worthwhile camping experience.  The evidence here (and at Loch Chon (see here)) gives the lie to the latest propaganda video from the LLTNPA which tries to portray itself as pro-camping and doing positive things for campers. The LLTNPA appear to think by inventing their new term the “wild camping experience”, to further muddy the waters for Ministers, then by reclassifying abysmal provision as some sort of innovative wild challenge, that the public will accept what they are offering as an alternative to camping on the loch shores.  That is just not going to happen.. Taken together with their failure to create new parking spaces for the 14 or so cars that could use this site speaks volumes for the LLTNPA’s contempt for paying customers.

 

In the end it’s not just Forest Drive that’s going to suffer, though the Forestry Commission Scotland  is in danger of losing it’s reputation built up over the past 40 years.  The Forest Drive permit area is starting to damage the reputation of our National Parks System and the Scottish Tourist industry itself.

 

It’s high time Sports Scotland, Visit Scotland and Scottish National Heritage intervened and stopped the rot.

 

What the National Park Authority needs to do!

 

Remove the zone as it stands from the booking system and let people camp once more in the original camping zone on the loch shore opposite provided by the Forestry Commission where the old signs are still in place. This has space for 3 or 4 tents to camp comfortably but needs further parking to allow campers, day visitors and fishermen to enjoy the loch shore.

 

Original permit zone provoded by the Forestry Commission

May 5, 2017 Ross MacBeath No comments exist
By Ross MacBeath

Perhaps, after all the publicity even Loch Lomond National Park Authority have conceded that many of the camping permit zones they created in the Trossachs are not suitable for camping.  This may explain why certain zones have been temporarily removed or do not appear on the permit booking system with the consequence that the LLTNPA has failed to deliver the 300 “new” places it promised within the camping management zones.


Forest Drive ‘C’ was removed on a temporary basis but has now been reinstated this is very unfortunate as the area has a high conservation value and should not be a campsite at all.

Forest Drive Zone ‘C’  Encouraging people to trample an ecologically sensitive area in a futile search for non existing campsites is as destructive as it contradictory to the term conservation.
This  zone is part of a greater area favoured as a breeding ground for lizards and through it’s wet aspect and vegetation, midges and ticks.

 

 

Forest Drive Zone ‘D’   – 24/02/2017

This zone has been removed from the permit booking system, a previous article on parkswatch having shown  zone ‘D’ as a wholly unsuitable area for camping being located in a recently clear-felled forest, with all the charm of a landfill site.  It has no viable pitches in an area no one would ever chose as a destination, never mind pay to do so, this is an affront to visitors.

 

 

Forest Drive Zone ‘K’ The 14 camping pitches credited to this zone have all been removed from the permit booking system.  This was a ridiculously extended zone with no viable pitches on the long narrow section to the side of Forest Drive, an area any self respecting camper would avoid in any case. The LLTNPA wrongly claimed that toilets were available at this zone.   The provision of parking for 14 vehicles was never described, other than to declare it was limited.

Forest Drive Zone N

I have not yet been able to find any details for Zone N.  It was shown on a LLTNP Map but it’s not clear how many pitches were allocated.  Working backwards the total for Forest Drive was supposed to be 72 and there are 62 at other zones giving us 10 pitches missing which are presumably accounted for by Zone ‘N’ and Zone ‘A’ if there is one – it has never appeared on any map.

Altogether this gives a total of 26 Pitches missing from the booking system at Forest Drive alone and of course their are a significant number of other zones just not suitable for camping.   Significantly, not a single one of the zones for Trossachs Rd includes photographs of what the ground looks like, unlike other areas of the National Park.

 

Other non-functional permit zones identified so far

 

Loch Achray South – has owner’s permission been given to use this site?

 

Tripple Locked Gate excluding visitors from 4 PitchesPotential campers and visitors have been locked out of the 4 pitches at south Loch Achray with a triple locked metal gate.  The clear message is access for visitors is not permitted at this time and its fair to conclude this zone is Out of Service.   Whatever the case,  it should not be locked.  The locks raise questions about the right of visitors to access this area.

Loch Venacher North, Zone A, also locked

Loch Venacher North Zone A is also locked, another 4 pitches denied to campers on top of the 30  described above.  Its possible therefore there has been no agreement with the landowner however it may also be due to the zone being unfit for use.

Photo on left from LLTNPA website 4/5/17 showing how attractive the zone is for camping – you can just see the locked gate.

 

 

Locked gates and the Right to Roam!

This raises the question of what is going on with greater access to the National Park.  It was never anyone’s understanding that Permit Zones were for paying customers only nor that they were intended to undermine the general right of access for other activities.   Now all visitors are being excluded with locked gates without explanation – a clear denial of access rights which the National Park, as the statutory access authority, was set up to uphold.

 

Which ever way you look at it the required 300 pitches have not been provided!

 

Add these pitches to the unusable ones on West Loch Lomond and the disaster at Loch Chon and its quite clear that the LLTNPA has failed in its commitment to Scottish Ministers to provide 300 new camping places by the 1st March.   Roseanna Cunningham, SNH and the LLTNPA auditors at West Dunbarton Council take note!

 

A number of organisations and public bodies only supported the camping byelaws on the basis that sufficient camping places were in place BEFORE the byelaws came into effect.   When are those organisations going to start speaking out?

April 25, 2017 Ross MacBeath No comments exist
By Ross MacBeath

It is now clear that much of camping provision intended as replacements for camping by our loch shores banned under the Loch Lomond and Trossachs National Park Authority Byelaws is little more than a collection of undesirable areas with little or nothing to offer families or groups of visitors as a camping experience.

 

With the exception of the yet unfinished site at Loch Chon and pitches at Rowardennan little else if anything is new.  The Park Authority is just issuing paid for permission slips to camp in the same areas that were free to campers previously, without the benefit of toilets or drinking water, or in the case of many permit zones,  places you would not want to camp, or even be able to pitch a tent.

 

Forest Drive Zone ‘E’ – no more than a collection of broken down pitches

 

Forest drive Zone ‘E’ supposedly providing  4 camping pitches, has a trio of broken down  pitches, created by the  forestry commission many years before with the 4th to be selected from the greater camping zone.

 

 

The first formal pitch has been destroyed by a forestry vehicle crossing it to access active forestry operations in the permit zone. The pitch is unusable.

 

As you might expect from an existing Forestry Commission site, this location is rather desirable at least as a view point and picnic spot. It has a true feel of a mature forest with pine needles softening the lines of the car park.  However forestry operations and tree  felling is putting this at risk.

 

The area overlooks the westerly reaches of Loch Drunkie. It is therefore a very popular spot with drive through visitors for both photo stopovers and extended stops for picnicking which means there is high demand for the limited space at the view point overlooking Loch Drunkie, marked ‘P’ on the map.

 

It is clear these pitches have not been used for camping in recent years and resurrecting them brings 8 to 16 additional visitors who will remain on the site with their vehicles.  This number of visitors using such a small area is as detrimental to the forest drive experience, as it is to the camping experience where a continuous flow of drive through visitors in search of picnic spots, disturb peace and quiet of the 3 pitches sited at the car park. The campers in turn block the use of the desirable location at the view point with  their own picnics and recreational use.

 

No work has been done in this zone other than the erection of a sign and some posts

 

The Forestry Commission’s original 3 camping pitches   have over the years fallen into disrepair through lack of maintenance and other damage.

That said, the LLTNPA have adopted this site as a camping permit zone and seen fit to do no remedial works whatsoever leaving the area in a state not fit for pitching tents.  Toilets for this zone are a 14.4 km round trip by car taking around 45 minutes.

 

The second of three pitches has a tree stump in it’s centre making it impossible to use as a viable camping pitch. How does the Park Authority expect anyone to sleep on this?

 

Again the National Park Authority have show their utter contempt for visitors at this site

 

 

The third pitch is a little better insofar as it is undamaged and you could pitch a small tent, but it does have borderline issues with slope which makes it undesirable from a comfort and sleeping perspective.  It would also be far more flexible without the wooden border and like the others, it is somewhat overgrown and does not provide a good ‘paid for’ camping experience.

 

The fourth pitch does not exist in any  formal form  and it appears you are expected to select a place to camp in the greater area that forms Zone ‘E’.  Some of the pine needle covered spots near the car parking looked promising but they turned out to be on hardcore that has become overgrown meaning there is no way to pitch a tent.

 

 

Looking back into the zone from the boundary opposite the car park we find what has now become a typical LLTNPA NON-solution,  with active forestry work  in progress within an area that is generally unsuitable for pitching tents. Wet, un-even ground with vegetation and forestry debris makes it an impossibility for camping as well as undesirable for visitor access.  Could another tent pitch be found? Yes if the debris from forest operations was removed, but the question remains, why would anyone want to?

 

Besides the one place identified above, could 3 other pitches be found to camp?  That’s a definite no at the moment. So the LLTNPA need to remedy the problems with the existing three faulty pitches and clear the ground for a fourth.

 

Another failure to provide the required number of pitches advertised

 

Like so much of the camping provision this zone is not family friendly due to pitch size which are too small for 4, 6 or 8 man tents. a lack of space to host 4 families and the drive through visitors at this popular spot with a likely conflict for both seating and car parking spaces.

This makes  zone ‘E’  unsuitable as a replacement for the previous camping provision by our loch shores and with the limitation on erecting only one tent per permit it is difficult to see how a family could use this area even if the pitch issues were resolved.

See also

 Forest Drive Zone B
 Loch Lomond Suie Field & Cuileag
 Forest Drive Zone C
 Loch Lomond Inveruglas (2nd half post)
 Forest Drive Zone D
 Forest Drive Zone E (this Post)
 Loch Lomond Firkin Point (1st half post)
 Forest Drive Zone F (to follow)
 Loch Earn South
 Forest Drive Zone G (to follow)
 Forest Drive Zone H (to follow)
 Forest Drive Zone L (coming soon)
 Forest Drive Zone M
April 14, 2017 Ross MacBeath 3 comments

By Ross MacBeath

Three Lochs Forest Drive Camping Permit Zone M

Following my visit to Forest Drive and posts on Zone B and Zone C, I thought I would cover zone M at the other end of Forest Drive because there was actually a family camping there when I visited on the 10th of April ’17.

 

Misleading information about the permit area

There are according to the Loch Lomond and Trossachs National Park Authority website no facilities in this permit zone, “no drinking water available” but “There are toilets half way along Three Lochs Forest Drive, up to 3km away.” 

* click map to zoom
  • The distance back along the drive to the toilets is 5.6 Km, if walking this would give a round trip of 11.2 km, not the maximum of 3 km implied, taking between 2.5 hrs to 4 hrs depending on pace.
  • Forest drive is a one way system, therefore to drive from any camping zone on Forest Drive to the toilets and return to your permit zone is a 14.4 km round trip taking about 45 minutes drive within speed limits

 

A Family with young children and a dog sold a pitch for a two man tent

The family of 5, 2 adults and 3 children, with a dog,  had purchased a permit for Forest Drive zone ‘M’: a site suitable only for a three man tent in a location wholly unsuitable for a family camp. The LLTNPA’s “Get a Permit site” misled them by not explaining the nature of the site or it’s capacity for tent size. The result is their 8 man tent had to be shoehorned into the only level space in the entire zone leaving them precariously close to an overhanging river bank.

 

8 man tent shoehorned into 2/3 man pitch
Pitching an 8 man tent on a 3 man pitch

Problems posed for these campers

It’s impossible to tension the guys properly due to the river behind and dense vegetation to the front so with high winds the whole lot could end in the river or collapsed with pole damage. Without space between the tent and the river, the central pole hoops each side of the door could not be pegged at the river side at all, leaving the tent unstable in the 26 mph winds experienced on 10th April when this camp took place.  Being so close to river,  the weight of an adult on the bank fixing guy lines could cause a collapse with at best a soaking, at worst a serious injury.  .

 

The door as you can see opens into the gap in the vegetation making entry and exit limited if not problematic, forcing entry to be made by a corridor in the vegetation. The greater area around the tent is a nightmare, it’s tick heaven and puts those in this area at some risk of tick bites. The nature of the vegetation also makes it likely that adders are present and care should be take especially in April when they come out of hibernation.   The use of sandals or even shorts would be ill advised due to the blanket of brambles prevalent in this area of the zone.

 

LLTNPA sells a product that fails to meet requirements then refuses a replacement.

 

The family in question were new to camping and oblivious to some of the problems they may face which could turn their first camping experience into a camping nightmare. They had identified on arrival that zone G by the loch side would have made a more suitable location for the family to camp. but there was no indication of this on the permit booking website as there are no photographs or descriptive text to the suitability of any zone.at Forest Drive.

In any case changing zones is not allowed under the parks  terms and conditions, which states “Permits cannot be transferred to other permit areas…” considering  they have been  mis-sold the camping experience that is no more than a cynical attempt by the LLTNPA to absolve itself from the need to provide a more suitable pitch which should have been identifiable during the booking process in the first place.

 

The LLTNPAs map for Three Lochs Forest Drive Zone M shows a long zone bounded by the river to the north and Forest Drive to the south  It details some trees at the western limit of a large semi oval camping ground becoming narrower corridor as it stretches east to the wooded area just below the gate. This area is expected to provide two camping pitches with visitor choice from the greater zone area. The image of the tent is placed over a location which in reality is a sink hole that drains runoff from the road in wet weather.

 

LLTNPA’s map fails to represent the true nature of Zone M

 

The Map of course does not represent what we find on the ground.  The shape of the zone follows the north and south bounds of the river and road making the true area of the zone similar in size but the narrow area between each end of the zone is filled with trees and scrub.  There is also a discrepancy with post position at the east end sign and yellow topped marker by the river.

 

The whole idea of a zone is misused here to con the public, stakeholders and ministers into believing something has been delivered when it has not.  It is clear the true extent of the camping zone is virtually  no larger than those areas shown in green and marked as pitch 1 and pitch 2 (on map below) and even then pitch 2 is not viable for camping due to the nature of the ground vegetation cover and it’s location in surrounding vegetation.

 

Diagram showing the poor access to Camping Zone M
Vegetation is dynamic and the diagram represents summer / autumn seasons.

Pitch 1 – a Natural “found” pitch by the river bank

 

As stated before, good camping pitches are found not made.

Pitch 1 is the only natural camping pitch in the  zone.  Its a small, level, dry grassy patch to the west edge of the zone. The pitch is longer and not much than wider than the path it sits on so will only suit a 1 or 2 man oblong footprint tent.  The presence of a mature fire ring indicates that this area has been used for camping in past seasons. This is not a new provision but an existing site. Being on a path into the rest of the oval area its not well situated as people and their pets pass looking for the second pitch or just exploring the area.  While at present there is another route down from the road it’s likely to be cutoff with brambles when the growing season begins. .

 

A natural pitch, used prior to byelaws but counted as new provision
Pitch 1 Long and Narrow and suitable for a two/three person tent.

 

Pitch 2 is not a viable camping pitch

 

The second pitch is just beyond the first, on the same path.  It is no more than a strimmed area of vegetation (bracken) on ground which is raised slightly above the surrounding area.  It is dry, even and fairly level.  The problem is the underlying vegetation has been cut back to provide the so called pitch in the middle of what is a dense patch of Bracken and Brambles.   When the growing season restarts it will quickly be come unusable without regular strimming and very undesirable when the surrounding vegetation reaches waist height.

 

 

Pitch 2 is not viable as a camping pitch, the cut down vegetation will re-establish itself and its location in the middle of bracken is wholly unsuitable.  The location is adjacent to brambles and will suffer encroachment if not already present on the pitch. Locating tents in .bracken is undesirable as it’s a preferred habitat for ticks.

The location of two pitches such in close proximity is also undesirable with the potential for mutual disturbance and the lack of surrounding space in this side of the zone make multiple occupancy undesirable.   The remainder of the half oval end of Zone M is not inaccessible to humans because of dense vegetation and brambles.

 

The west end of the zone is largely inaccessible.

 

The ground cover in the oval area of zone M, designated the camping area by the tent symbol in the Parks Map, in reality, like the rest of the area, offers nothing in the way of recreation.  It is both rough and bramble filled, where access to the rest of the zone is down slopes only if they are not overgrown and so blocked by vegetation. The central section where the zone narrows to a steep slope and with an almost vertical drop to the river it is not accessible.  The areas immediately to the west and east of the narrows are overgrown and bramble filled.

The Central Narrowed Portion of Zone M is Completely inaccessible

 

The central potion from the east of the zone to the west is impassable due to steep slope and tick vegetation. There is no connection path between the West and East side of Zone M’ The Bramble and dense vegetation covers almost half of the semi oval area shown with the tent symbol.

 

Thick brambles covering large areas of west side of Zone M, vertical slopes down to river.

The East end of Zone M

 

The east end of Zone M is somewhat inaccessible due to slopes and thick bramble entangled vegetation, There are three or so locations where access is possible down rather steep slopes there is nothing more in the area than a path through to one of the other exits.making entrance pointless as there is no viable camping locations or other reason to come into this end of the zone.other than to search fruitlessly for a camping spot or exploration.

 

These images were taken before the start of the growing season

The LLTNPA attitude towards visitors is shocking and their terms & conditions and regulations for the park are draconian:  “You must arrive at your permit area after
1pm on the first day of your permit and leave before 11am on the last day of your permit”  under threat of a £500 fine and a criminal conviction.

 

See terms and conditions here

 

The LLTNPA also take the view through their zero liability clause that it is your responsibility to decide on the safety of their product, that is the “camping experience” that they have sold you, which of course you can only do once you arrive on site.  Then, if the location is dangerous and unsuitable as is the case above, they expect you to put up with a poor experience or cancel your weekend and return home.